Eric

Ive done limiting DJing, mostly background music (I have a PA system)
using home CD players and recording style mixers. I've ALWAYS wanted
a "real" DJ setup. I like CD's. I'd like to get turntables
eventually but I'm gonna go CD first. I dont need to do scratching
etc immediately but sometime down the road. Im looking at various
units, I see gemini, numark, american DJ, denon etc. My PA system I
use Electro-Voice tops and subs, Crown macro-tech amps, an Ashly
crossover and right now a Spirit mixer. I took a look at the Gemini
mp3 unit and it looks awesome. I definately see a + with a mp3
capable unit except for $.

I like techno, house, mainstream dance music. Occasionally hip hop.

My basic question is what is better for my application, are 2 of the
table top style cd players or one of the "split unit" ones where the
decks are below the remote controller.

Now this is strictly for a hobby, I probably wont DJ for $ except for
the occasional "favor". Any recommendations on style, brand, model,
places to buy would be appreciated.

DJ Jules B.

On 23 Nov 2003 18:41:15 -0800, Eric <ericdwong@yahoo.com> wrote:
> My basic question is what is better for my application, are 2 of the
> table top style cd players or one of the "split unit" ones where the
> decks are below the remote controller.

I would suggest that you go into a store and have a play with both
types, to see which ones you prefer. I personally think that the top
loading players with the large "platters" give you more control, but in
the end, it's up to you.

DJ Jules B.

Eric

"DJ Jules B." <z3101490@student.unsw.edu.auNOSPAM> wrote in message news:<bps863$r57$1@tomahawk.unsw.edu.au>...
> On 23 Nov 2003 18:41:15 -0800, Eric <ericdwong@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > My basic question is what is better for my application, are 2 of the
> > table top style cd players or one of the "split unit" ones where the
> > decks are below the remote controller.
>
> I would suggest that you go into a store and have a play with both
> types, to see which ones you prefer. I personally think that the top
> loading players with the large "platters" give you more control, but in
> the end, it's up to you.
>
> DJ Jules B.




Went to Guitar center today- played with what they had, I really liked
the Pioneer CDJ 800 unit, but at $550-650 street price (+ the $100
rebate) at almost $1000 for 2 dang thats alot of money. I saw the
motorized denon units but I dunno that was just wierd to me.

I think I'd definately go for the platter style ones, now that I've
used them. I'm also looking between a Behringer VMX300 mixer to a
Pioneer DJM 707, but I've only seen the 707 online as its just coming
out. Its expensive though, almost 3x the cost of the VMX300.....

Ben

ericdwong@yahoo.com (Eric) wrote in message
> Went to Guitar center today- played with what they had, I really liked
> the Pioneer CDJ 800 unit, but at $550-650 street price (+ the $100
> rebate) at almost $1000 for 2 dang thats alot of money. I saw the
> motorized denon units but I dunno that was just wierd to me.
>
> I think I'd definately go for the platter style ones, now that I've
> used them. I'm also looking between a Behringer VMX300 mixer to a
> Pioneer DJM 707, but I've only seen the 707 online as its just coming
> out. Its expensive though, almost 3x the cost of the VMX300.....

Hi Eric. Yea, of course you liked the CDJ-800 But you aren't
going to get that kind of player without spending that kind of money,
so unless you are ready to spend the money, don't fall too in love
with it... But it all depends on what kind of DJing you want to do.
You mention a lot of different kinds of music...
You can basically divide the players up two ways.. first, can they
scratch or not. And second, do they scrub cue (slide back and forth
to find the spot like a record) or stutter cue (player repeats a frame
of audio over and over, and you slide back and forth until you hear
the frame you want). In the Pioneers, for example, the CDJ-100 is no
scratching, and stutter cue. The 800 and 1000 can scrub abd scratch.
In other brands you have some models that can scratch, but not like
the CDJ-800/1000 or the Denon with the moving platter, because their
wheels aren't touch sensitive. Some of them are limited, some can
only scratch a few seconds of music and can't scrub cue. The other
thing to be aware of is that features doesn't equal quality. For
example the music I and most DJs I know play, which is psytrance
music.. there is no need for scratching, so we would rather have a
good quality player than one with scratching or a lot of toys. As you
know already because you own some nice PA equipment, there is more to
quality than meets the eye, it's all about the performance.. how
smooth the operation is, reliability etc. I have Pioneer CDJ-100's
which are the cheapest Pioneers you can get @ around $300/each.. they
don't do much.. only one cue point, no looping, sampling etc.. very
simple control surface, no scratching, stutter cue. But they are
universally loved by all the DJ's I know because they are really nice
to use, they "feel" good. They are easy to cue, the wheel action is
nice, the pitch control is steady etc. And it has master tempo, which
only a few players in that price range have. And you get a table top
slot loader, which I personally prefer (and I think I'm not alone).
Everyone I knew was pushing me toward them and I'm glad they did. I
wish I had looping. Sometime I wish I had more than one cue point.
But mostly I'm very happy with it and when I use players that aren't
so smooth it drives me nuts. The competition for a similar player at
the same price range would be American DJ and Gemini (1800). The
Gemini seems on the surface to offer everything the Pioneer does and
more. But it is not as nice to use, not so smooth. You should try it
and see for yourself. In between in price there are not so many
models. The Numark Axis 8 or Axis 2 is worth a look. It's a tray
loader but it does have a nice layout and a big wheel. Personally I
don't like the Numark wheel action or the way they set cue points but
I admit it probably has a lot to do with what I'm used to. But you
can't pause without losing your cue point, that sucks. Some of the
Numarks I have tried are pretty nice.

Personally if I was in your shoes.. unless you want to spend the money
for the CDJ-800 or a player like it.. I would just say forget
scratching, wait until you have vinyl for that. You can get a pair of
non-scratching players and play all the music you mentioned on it.
And build your beatmatching and mixing skills which you'll need no
matter what. And it'll cost you the same as ONE of the CDJ-800's...

Re the VMX300, a friend of mine recently got one and I played on it.
It's really a very decent mixer for the money, I was surprised. It's
not "pro" quality but I think it will serve you well. Once you have
been playing a while then you'll know what you personally like in a
mixer and you'll be more able to choose from the expensive models.

-Ben

Eric

Thanks for the detailed and lengthy response... it was a great help.
Perhaps at first I should go with the CDJ100s to get down the basics
of DJing period. You are right while scratching etc is cool, I dont
do much music that needs it. There isnt that much scratching in
techno/mainstream dance/club then there is in say hip hop. I will go
back to Guitarcenter to take a look further at the CDJ100s. Ive used
Atomixmp3 for the PC and that really got me going on beat mixing and
blending etc but obviously atomix mp3 with its "automatic beat match"
is quite cheating...


ben_google@cownow.com (Ben) wrote in message news:<bfa5431.0311270826.5ba77f04@posting.google.c om>...
> ericdwong@yahoo.com (Eric) wrote in message
> > Went to Guitar center today- played with what they had, I really liked
> > the Pioneer CDJ 800 unit, but at $550-650 street price (+ the $100
> > rebate) at almost $1000 for 2 dang thats alot of money. I saw the
> > motorized denon units but I dunno that was just wierd to me.
> >
> > I think I'd definately go for the platter style ones, now that I've
> > used them. I'm also looking between a Behringer VMX300 mixer to a
> > Pioneer DJM 707, but I've only seen the 707 online as its just coming
> > out. Its expensive though, almost 3x the cost of the VMX300.....
>
> Hi Eric. Yea, of course you liked the CDJ-800 But you aren't
> going to get that kind of player without spending that kind of money,
> so unless you are ready to spend the money, don't fall too in love
> with it... But it all depends on what kind of DJing you want to do.
> You mention a lot of different kinds of music...
> You can basically divide the players up two ways.. first, can they
> scratch or not. And second, do they scrub cue (slide back and forth
> to find the spot like a record) or stutter cue (player repeats a frame
> of audio over and over, and you slide back and forth until you hear
> the frame you want). In the Pioneers, for example, the CDJ-100 is no
> scratching, and stutter cue. The 800 and 1000 can scrub abd scratch.
> In other brands you have some models that can scratch, but not like
> the CDJ-800/1000 or the Denon with the moving platter, because their
> wheels aren't touch sensitive. Some of them are limited, some can
> only scratch a few seconds of music and can't scrub cue. The other
> thing to be aware of is that features doesn't equal quality. For
> example the music I and most DJs I know play, which is psytrance
> music.. there is no need for scratching, so we would rather have a
> good quality player than one with scratching or a lot of toys. As you
> know already because you own some nice PA equipment, there is more to
> quality than meets the eye, it's all about the performance.. how
> smooth the operation is, reliability etc. I have Pioneer CDJ-100's
> which are the cheapest Pioneers you can get @ around $300/each.. they
> don't do much.. only one cue point, no looping, sampling etc.. very
> simple control surface, no scratching, stutter cue. But they are
> universally loved by all the DJ's I know because they are really nice
> to use, they "feel" good. They are easy to cue, the wheel action is
> nice, the pitch control is steady etc. And it has master tempo, which
> only a few players in that price range have. And you get a table top
> slot loader, which I personally prefer (and I think I'm not alone).
> Everyone I knew was pushing me toward them and I'm glad they did. I
> wish I had looping. Sometime I wish I had more than one cue point.
> But mostly I'm very happy with it and when I use players that aren't
> so smooth it drives me nuts. The competition for a similar player at
> the same price range would be American DJ and Gemini (1800). The
> Gemini seems on the surface to offer everything the Pioneer does and
> more. But it is not as nice to use, not so smooth. You should try it
> and see for yourself. In between in price there are not so many
> models. The Numark Axis 8 or Axis 2 is worth a look. It's a tray
> loader but it does have a nice layout and a big wheel. Personally I
> don't like the Numark wheel action or the way they set cue points but
> I admit it probably has a lot to do with what I'm used to. But you
> can't pause without losing your cue point, that sucks. Some of the
> Numarks I have tried are pretty nice.
>
> Personally if I was in your shoes.. unless you want to spend the money
> for the CDJ-800 or a player like it.. I would just say forget
> scratching, wait until you have vinyl for that. You can get a pair of
> non-scratching players and play all the music you mentioned on it.
> And build your beatmatching and mixing skills which you'll need no
> matter what. And it'll cost you the same as ONE of the CDJ-800's...
>
> Re the VMX300, a friend of mine recently got one and I played on it.
> It's really a very decent mixer for the money, I was surprised. It's
> not "pro" quality but I think it will serve you well. Once you have
> been playing a while then you'll know what you personally like in a
> mixer and you'll be more able to choose from the expensive models.
>
> -Ben

Ben

ericdwong@yahoo.com (Eric) wrote in message news:<7b667fe1.0311281145.7118de5d@posting.google. com>...
> Thanks for the detailed and lengthy response... it was a great help.
> Perhaps at first I should go with the CDJ100s to get down the basics
> of DJing period. You are right while scratching etc is cool, I dont
> do much music that needs it. There isnt that much scratching in
> techno/mainstream dance/club then there is in say hip hop. I will go
> back to Guitarcenter to take a look further at the CDJ100s. Ive used
> Atomixmp3 for the PC and that really got me going on beat mixing and
> blending etc but obviously atomix mp3 with its "automatic beat match"
> is quite cheating...

Yea, exactly. You have to learn to beatmatch. Even if you have
hardware or software that can do it for you it is a basic skill you
need to learn to really advance in your mixing. Then you learn how,
when, and for how long to match the tracks up.. what to play when, and
how to work with the mixer, the eq's on the mixer to make the mixes
really creative. You don't need more than the basic CD player
features for that. But I think you picked a good mixer, because the
separate VU meters on each input are very useful, and the 3 band eq.
And the cutoff switches on the VMX300 are a lot of fun.

Re the Pioneer CDJ-100's yea I really like my players.. but I don't
want to be like so many people in pumping up what I have and
dismissing other products. I think the CDJ-100's do the basics better
than any similar player in that price category.. But like I said
before I think that if you want more features like looping, multiple
cue points etc then the others are worth a look, like the ADJ PSX or
Pro-Scratch. I used the Pro-Scratch and it's not bad at all, it is
really a very decent player, but I prefer the feel of mine. Or the
Gemini 1800 or the Numark Axis 2/8. Personally I limited my choice to
tabletop players with slot loading and with Master Tempo (aka Tempo
Lock) which I considered (for me) to be requirements.. and it sounds
like you are on the same path.. but you should still look around and
not just take anyones word for it. I did a lot of looking around
before deciding...

-Ben