Eric

Hi, I'm looking for recommendations on specific models/makes of DJ
mixers. These are my requirements:

XLR out. I'm having big time trouble with RCA outs. I really only
need 5 or so inputs. I dont use turntables but if I decide to get
some in the future, I'd like inputs for them. I need space for the 2
DJ cd players, and 1 computer.

Sound quality. I want a DJ mixer that will be able to pass the signal
through and add as little of its own sonic character as possible. I
guess I should mention that I am an audiophile and little stuff
bothers me. I'd have to say sound quality takes precedence over
features/bells whistles.

Preferences:
I mix mostly mainstream dance, techno, trance style music. I play rap
but not so much for scratching etc. CD players are 2 Pioneer CDJ-100s
(which dont scratch). I heard I should try out a rotary mixer to see
how I like the feel, so I'm open minded about that although I'm used
to the traditional up/down style faders.

I dont need any BS like sound processing or any of that jazz. I'm
more of a "purist". My current mixer has kill switches too for lows
mids and highs. While they're neat to play with I very rarely ever
use them.

I'm currently using a Behringer VMX300 (great mixer to learn on)
however its a little low quality. Sometimes the right channel is
louder then the left etc and I swear its adding its own sonic
signature to the mix. I'm not too familiar with the "status" of
various brands in the DJ market. I am looking at Rane, mostly cause
of my familiarity with their pro audio products. So any
recommendations?

Ben

Eric wrote:
> Hi, I'm looking for recommendations on specific models/makes of DJ
> mixers. These are my requirements:
>
> XLR out. I'm having big time trouble with RCA outs. I really only
> need 5 or so inputs. I dont use turntables but if I decide to get
> some in the future, I'd like inputs for them. I need space for the 2
> DJ cd players, and 1 computer.
>
> Sound quality. I want a DJ mixer that will be able to pass the signal
> through and add as little of its own sonic character as possible. I
> guess I should mention that I am an audiophile and little stuff
> bothers me. I'd have to say sound quality takes precedence over
> features/bells whistles.
>
> Preferences:
> I mix mostly mainstream dance, techno, trance style music. I play rap
> but not so much for scratching etc. CD players are 2 Pioneer CDJ-100s
> (which dont scratch). I heard I should try out a rotary mixer to see
> how I like the feel, so I'm open minded about that although I'm used
> to the traditional up/down style faders.
>
> I dont need any BS like sound processing or any of that jazz. I'm
> more of a "purist". My current mixer has kill switches too for lows
> mids and highs. While they're neat to play with I very rarely ever
> use them.
>
> I'm currently using a Behringer VMX300 (great mixer to learn on)
> however its a little low quality. Sometimes the right channel is
> louder then the left etc and I swear its adding its own sonic
> signature to the mix. I'm not too familiar with the "status" of
> various brands in the DJ market. I am looking at Rane, mostly cause
> of my familiarity with their pro audio products. So any
> recommendations?

Here are the ones I like:

Vestax PCV-275 (3 channels)
Rane Empath (3 channels)
Allen & Heath Xone:32 (3 channels)
Tascam X-9 (4 channels)
Allen & Heath Xone:62 (6 channels)
Rane 2016 + 2016XP (6 channels)

Re the Behringer VMX-300 it's got a lot for the money, definitely a
great deal. But I agree it is not so great sounding. Even the lowest
priced mixer I listed, the Vestax, will kick the ass of the Behringer
when it comes to sonics.

-Ben

Eric

Ben <ben_google@cownow.com> wrote in message news:<1078903067.326092@nntp.acecape.com>...
> Eric wrote:
> >>
> Here are the ones I like:
>
> Vestax PCV-275 (3 channels)
> Rane Empath (3 channels)
> Allen & Heath Xone:32 (3 channels)
> Tascam X-9 (4 channels)
> Allen & Heath Xone:62 (6 channels)
> Rane 2016 + 2016XP (6 channels)
>
> Re the Behringer VMX-300 it's got a lot for the money, definitely a
> great deal. But I agree it is not so great sounding. Even the lowest
> priced mixer I listed, the Vestax, will kick the ass of the Behringer
> when it comes to sonics.
>
> -Ben

Thanks for the recommendations. Wasnt it you who also recommended me
the CDJ100's? Anyway, I think I have narrowed it down to 2. Its a
shootout between the Rane Empath and hte Allen + Heath Xone32.
They're the perfect size I need. The tascam looks great but until I
get a CDJ1000S, I dont need all that digital stuff. The Vestax also
looks good, but- RCA outs. As for the rane vs A&H, they're both from
respected pro audio manufactureres so I would be confident in either
of them. The A+H looks like it may have some more features then the
Empath, however it looks like alot of thought was put into the Empath.
It appears as Empath may be more of a hip hop mixer then a techno DJ
mixer but I'm sure I'd be able to make do with it. I really should
find a store that carries them and play with it. Looks like they both
go new around $700-900 or so.

Ben

Eric wrote:
> Ben <ben_google@cownow.com> wrote in message news:<1078903067.326092@nntp.acecape.com>...
>
>>Eric wrote:
>>
>>Here are the ones I like:
>>
>>Vestax PCV-275 (3 channels)
>>Rane Empath (3 channels)
>>Allen & Heath Xone:32 (3 channels)
>>Tascam X-9 (4 channels)
>>Allen & Heath Xone:62 (6 channels)
>>Rane 2016 + 2016XP (6 channels)
>>
>>Re the Behringer VMX-300 it's got a lot for the money, definitely a
>>great deal. But I agree it is not so great sounding. Even the lowest
>>priced mixer I listed, the Vestax, will kick the ass of the Behringer
>>when it comes to sonics.
>>
>>-Ben
>
>
> Thanks for the recommendations. Wasnt it you who also recommended me
> the CDJ100's? Anyway, I think I have narrowed it down to 2. Its a
> shootout between the Rane Empath and hte Allen + Heath Xone32.
> They're the perfect size I need. The tascam looks great but until I
> get a CDJ1000S, I dont need all that digital stuff. The Vestax also
> looks good, but- RCA outs. As for the rane vs A&H, they're both from
> respected pro audio manufactureres so I would be confident in either
> of them. The A+H looks like it may have some more features then the
> Empath, however it looks like alot of thought was put into the Empath.
> It appears as Empath may be more of a hip hop mixer then a techno DJ
> mixer but I'm sure I'd be able to make do with it. I really should
> find a store that carries them and play with it. Looks like they both
> go new around $700-900 or so.


Yea, I suggested the CDJ-100's, hope you're enjoying them. I'm also
itching for a new mixer as I have used some nice ones but at home I
still have my Gemini UMX-9, which is not bad actually, it sounds
probably a little better than the VMX-300. I don't have huge complaints
about the sound, but better would definitely be nice. I started using
my Mackie 1402vlz as a DJ mixer and actually am enjoying it a lot. The
EQ's are nice on it. The thing is I have a pretty good stereo eg Pro-Ac
speakers, B&K amp. You can hear the difference between the CDJ-100's
and my home CD player (a Sony X7ES that is well over a decade old, but
cost quite a lot new). But for a DJ CD player they sound very good, if
you know what I mean. But when I'm using my DJ system (EV Eliminator
i's and a QSC amp) you can't really hear much difference. Course those
are pretty cheap in the general scheme of things too... Anyway, I guess
what I am saying is good gear is nice but there is no point in getting
too tweaky about it unless you are really committed to a first class
system all the way... I think all the mixers on my list will sound
really good, they all have something to be said for them. The Vestax is
a nice mixer for the money, It's actually very good sounding.. XLR
outputs doesn't = good sound necessarily. Plenty of crap mixers have
XLR's. 1/4" jacks are fine. I have used the predecessor of that mixer,
the 170A, with nice B&W speakers aimed at my head, as well as outdoors
at a party. And I have heard the 275 played at parties.. Sounded really
good actually. Head and shoulders above what you have now. So I
wouldn't kick it out of the running just because of the jacks. Re the
Xone:32 it is a nice basic mixer.. the one thing I don't like about it
is the input trims being on the back. I use those all the time and I
think it would be irritating. The Empath is really beautifully laid
out, but damn, $800+. But it has the headphone eq which is nice. But
you know the only time I really need headphone eq is when I'm first
setting up a track and I can just eq it with the channel eq's to get
what I want in my headphones. Once I am mixing, I want to hear the real
thing in my headphones so... The Tascam is even more expensive, but
what -doesn't- it have?! The sweepable EQ's are really tempting. And
the other stuff on there, the effects etc.. well, why do you need a
CDJ-1000 to need effects and samplers? The mixer doesn't care what CD
player the sound came from... Anyway, got to run but let me know how it
goes. Guitar Center is really nice, they'll let you come in and play
your own music on the different units. I plan to go in there some time
when it's really quiet and spend some time doing that... So that's what
I think you should do because you can't tell the difference between
these nicer units just looking at a web page...

-Ben

Eric

Ben <ben_google@cownow.com> wrote in message news:<1078961015.848933@nntp.acecape.com>...
> Eric wrote:
> > Ben <ben_google@cownow.com> wrote in message news:<1078903067.326092@nntp.acecape.com>...
> >
> >>Eric wrote:
> >>
> >>Here are the ones I like:
> >>
> >>Vestax PCV-275 (3 channels)
> >>Rane Empath (3 channels)
> >>Allen & Heath Xone:32 (3 channels)
> >>Tascam X-9 (4 channels)
> >>Allen & Heath Xone:62 (6 channels)
> >>Rane 2016 + 2016XP (6 channels)
> >>
> >>Re the Behringer VMX-300 it's got a lot for the money, definitely a
> >>great deal. But I agree it is not so great sounding. Even the lowest
> >>priced mixer I listed, the Vestax, will kick the ass of the Behringer
> >>when it comes to sonics.
> >>
> >>-Ben
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the recommendations. Wasnt it you who also recommended me
> > the CDJ100's? Anyway, I think I have narrowed it down to 2. Its a
> > shootout between the Rane Empath and hte Allen + Heath Xone32.
> > They're the perfect size I need. The tascam looks great but until I
> > get a CDJ1000S, I dont need all that digital stuff. The Vestax also
> > looks good, but- RCA outs. As for the rane vs A&H, they're both from
> > respected pro audio manufactureres so I would be confident in either
> > of them. The A+H looks like it may have some more features then the
> > Empath, however it looks like alot of thought was put into the Empath.
> > It appears as Empath may be more of a hip hop mixer then a techno DJ
> > mixer but I'm sure I'd be able to make do with it. I really should
> > find a store that carries them and play with it. Looks like they both
> > go new around $700-900 or so.
>
>
> Yea, I suggested the CDJ-100's, hope you're enjoying them. I'm also
> itching for a new mixer as I have used some nice ones but at home I
> still have my Gemini UMX-9, which is not bad actually, it sounds
> probably a little better than the VMX-300. I don't have huge complaints
> about the sound, but better would definitely be nice. I started using
> my Mackie 1402vlz as a DJ mixer and actually am enjoying it a lot. The
> EQ's are nice on it. The thing is I have a pretty good stereo eg Pro-Ac
> speakers, B&K amp. You can hear the difference between the CDJ-100's
> and my home CD player (a Sony X7ES that is well over a decade old, but
> cost quite a lot new). But for a DJ CD player they sound very good, if
> you know what I mean. But when I'm using my DJ system (EV Eliminator
> i's and a QSC amp) you can't really hear much difference. Course those
> are pretty cheap in the general scheme of things too... Anyway, I guess
> what I am saying is good gear is nice but there is no point in getting
> too tweaky about it unless you are really committed to a first class
> system all the way... I think all the mixers on my list will sound
> really good, they all have something to be said for them. The Vestax is
> a nice mixer for the money, It's actually very good sounding.. XLR
> outputs doesn't = good sound necessarily. Plenty of crap mixers have
> XLR's. 1/4" jacks are fine. I have used the predecessor of that mixer,
> the 170A, with nice B&W speakers aimed at my head, as well as outdoors
> at a party. And I have heard the 275 played at parties.. Sounded really
> good actually. Head and shoulders above what you have now. So I
> wouldn't kick it out of the running just because of the jacks. Re the
> Xone:32 it is a nice basic mixer.. the one thing I don't like about it
> is the input trims being on the back. I use those all the time and I
> think it would be irritating. The Empath is really beautifully laid
> out, but damn, $800+. But it has the headphone eq which is nice. But
> you know the only time I really need headphone eq is when I'm first
> setting up a track and I can just eq it with the channel eq's to get
> what I want in my headphones. Once I am mixing, I want to hear the real
> thing in my headphones so... The Tascam is even more expensive, but
> what -doesn't- it have?! The sweepable EQ's are really tempting. And
> the other stuff on there, the effects etc.. well, why do you need a
> CDJ-1000 to need effects and samplers? The mixer doesn't care what CD
> player the sound came from... Anyway, got to run but let me know how it
> goes. Guitar Center is really nice, they'll let you come in and play
> your own music on the different units. I plan to go in there some time
> when it's really quiet and spend some time doing that... So that's what
> I think you should do because you can't tell the difference between
> these nicer units just looking at a web page...
>
> -Ben

Funny I have EV Eliminators (they're on ebay right now I just got new
speakers) and 2 EV SB180s' for bass. Im replacing the Eliminators
with the EV Gladiators which are a little more suitable for dance
music. Ill have to take a look at the other mixers again, I cant
remember if Guitar Center carried Vestax or Rane.

Ben

Eric wrote:
> Ben <ben_google@cownow.com> wrote in message news:<1078961015.848933@nntp.acecape.com>...
>
>>Eric wrote:
>>
>>>Ben <ben_google@cownow.com> wrote in message news:<1078903067.326092@nntp.acecape.com>...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Eric wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Here are the ones I like:
>>>>
>>>>Vestax PCV-275 (3 channels)
>>>>Rane Empath (3 channels)
>>>>Allen & Heath Xone:32 (3 channels)
>>>>Tascam X-9 (4 channels)
>>>>Allen & Heath Xone:62 (6 channels)
>>>>Rane 2016 + 2016XP (6 channels)
>>>>
>>>>Re the Behringer VMX-300 it's got a lot for the money, definitely a
>>>>great deal. But I agree it is not so great sounding. Even the lowest
>>>>priced mixer I listed, the Vestax, will kick the ass of the Behringer
>>>>when it comes to sonics.
>>>>
>>>>-Ben
>>>
>>>
>>>Thanks for the recommendations. Wasnt it you who also recommended me
>>>the CDJ100's? Anyway, I think I have narrowed it down to 2. Its a
>>>shootout between the Rane Empath and hte Allen + Heath Xone32.
>>>They're the perfect size I need. The tascam looks great but until I
>>>get a CDJ1000S, I dont need all that digital stuff. The Vestax also
>>>looks good, but- RCA outs. As for the rane vs A&H, they're both from
>>>respected pro audio manufactureres so I would be confident in either
>>>of them. The A+H looks like it may have some more features then the
>>>Empath, however it looks like alot of thought was put into the Empath.
>>> It appears as Empath may be more of a hip hop mixer then a techno DJ
>>>mixer but I'm sure I'd be able to make do with it. I really should
>>>find a store that carries them and play with it. Looks like they both
>>>go new around $700-900 or so.
>>
>>
>>Yea, I suggested the CDJ-100's, hope you're enjoying them. I'm also
>>itching for a new mixer as I have used some nice ones but at home I
>>still have my Gemini UMX-9, which is not bad actually, it sounds
>>probably a little better than the VMX-300. I don't have huge complaints
>>about the sound, but better would definitely be nice. I started using
>>my Mackie 1402vlz as a DJ mixer and actually am enjoying it a lot. The
>>EQ's are nice on it. The thing is I have a pretty good stereo eg Pro-Ac
>>speakers, B&K amp. You can hear the difference between the CDJ-100's
>>and my home CD player (a Sony X7ES that is well over a decade old, but
>>cost quite a lot new). But for a DJ CD player they sound very good, if
>>you know what I mean. But when I'm using my DJ system (EV Eliminator
>>i's and a QSC amp) you can't really hear much difference. Course those
>>are pretty cheap in the general scheme of things too... Anyway, I guess
>>what I am saying is good gear is nice but there is no point in getting
>>too tweaky about it unless you are really committed to a first class
>>system all the way... I think all the mixers on my list will sound
>>really good, they all have something to be said for them. The Vestax is
>>a nice mixer for the money, It's actually very good sounding.. XLR
>>outputs doesn't = good sound necessarily. Plenty of crap mixers have
>>XLR's. 1/4" jacks are fine. I have used the predecessor of that mixer,
>>the 170A, with nice B&W speakers aimed at my head, as well as outdoors
>>at a party. And I have heard the 275 played at parties.. Sounded really
>>good actually. Head and shoulders above what you have now. So I
>>wouldn't kick it out of the running just because of the jacks. Re the
>>Xone:32 it is a nice basic mixer.. the one thing I don't like about it
>>is the input trims being on the back. I use those all the time and I
>>think it would be irritating. The Empath is really beautifully laid
>>out, but damn, $800+. But it has the headphone eq which is nice. But
>>you know the only time I really need headphone eq is when I'm first
>>setting up a track and I can just eq it with the channel eq's to get
>>what I want in my headphones. Once I am mixing, I want to hear the real
>>thing in my headphones so... The Tascam is even more expensive, but
>>what -doesn't- it have?! The sweepable EQ's are really tempting. And
>>the other stuff on there, the effects etc.. well, why do you need a
>>CDJ-1000 to need effects and samplers? The mixer doesn't care what CD
>>player the sound came from... Anyway, got to run but let me know how it
>>goes. Guitar Center is really nice, they'll let you come in and play
>>your own music on the different units. I plan to go in there some time
>>when it's really quiet and spend some time doing that... So that's what
>>I think you should do because you can't tell the difference between
>>these nicer units just looking at a web page...
>>
>>-Ben
>
>
> Funny I have EV Eliminators (they're on ebay right now I just got new
> speakers) and 2 EV SB180s' for bass. Im replacing the Eliminators
> with the EV Gladiators which are a little more suitable for dance
> music. Ill have to take a look at the other mixers again, I cant
> remember if Guitar Center carried Vestax or Rane.

Sounds great, that's really gonna kick. If you had been selling last
year I would have driven down and bought them (I'm in NYC). How do you
feel about the Gladiators vs the Eliminator i? I haven't heard the
Gladiator yet, but specs-wise, I see it's the same power handling, but
different drivers.. and a bigger enclosure, and a little bit more
expensive. I'm wondering what is the real difference, is it in the
depth of the bass? Friend of mine has the elim-i doubles and matching
subs, and it is a really excellent sounding system, and plenty powerful
for dance music (pair of elim amps to go with). Sounds much more
expensive than it costs. Then again, most speakers in this price range
seems to be crap, even those with big names. I'm a big EV fan. But
right now I have no reason to expand my system as I can borrow or rent
cheap from friends when I need something bigger... Already too many
underutilized systems around town... If i was actually making money off
my system I would go for EV252+'s...

-Ben

Eric

> >
> > Funny I have EV Eliminators (they're on ebay right now I just got new
> > speakers) and 2 EV SB180s' for bass. Im replacing the Eliminators
> > with the EV Gladiators which are a little more suitable for dance
> > music. Ill have to take a look at the other mixers again, I cant
> > remember if Guitar Center carried Vestax or Rane.
>
> Sounds great, that's really gonna kick. If you had been selling last
> year I would have driven down and bought them (I'm in NYC). How do you
> feel about the Gladiators vs the Eliminator i? I haven't heard the
> Gladiator yet, but specs-wise, I see it's the same power handling, but
> different drivers.. and a bigger enclosure, and a little bit more
> expensive. I'm wondering what is the real difference, is it in the
> depth of the bass? Friend of mine has the elim-i doubles and matching
> subs, and it is a really excellent sounding system, and plenty powerful
> for dance music (pair of elim amps to go with). Sounds much more
> expensive than it costs. Then again, most speakers in this price range
> seems to be crap, even those with big names. I'm a big EV fan. But
> right now I have no reason to expand my system as I can borrow or rent
> cheap from friends when I need something bigger... Already too many
> underutilized systems around town... If i was actually making money off
> my system I would go for EV252+'s...
>
> -Ben

I dont have the Eliminator I's but the previous ones. I think the
differences between the I and the older one may be subtle, but more so
in the enclosure itself. The I does not have a wrap around grille
like the older ones do. That tended to get bent and rattled.

I found that with my Eliminators if I pushed the bass they would
bottom out rather quickly. The Gladiators definately have more bass
but I guess that doesnt really matter when I'm running the highs with
the SB180s. The ports are deeper (which means lower tuning freq) then
the Eliminators. However I had a peek inside the box and I dont know
if the Gladiator uses the "pro" circuit. There appeared to be 2 fuses
on the crossover box. I guess this is cause a DJ is going to play
prerecorded music where the levels are much more predicable then a
live band prone to dropped microphones and feedback. the HF horn and
driver is still the same (and the comp driver is the same DH2010A
thats been used in the mid-line EV speakers since like 1990). Also it
appears as though the gladiator was designed for full range bass.
Even running in their "3 way passive crossover" with the gladiator
sub, there is no high pass applied to the 15" woofer. I'm not sure if
its my imagination or my slight different positioning but I think the
gladiators may be a wee bit less sensitive then the Elim's even though
they both spec at 99 db/1 watt/1 met. I still have the eliminators so
I'd like to do some quik and dirty tests with some SPL meter and RTA.

I have them high passed around 90 Hz or so with an Ashly XR2001. I'm
runnin an older AB International Precedent 600LX amp on those. I'd
like to upgrade to a QSC PLX amp, or maybe a Crown CE4k. I have a
Crown macro-Tech 5000vz driving the bass so I think that amp certainly
is large enough.

I actually havent really used my system that much at all to make
money, most the time its sitting in the house and I use it for house
parties. honestly I'm more into the gear then I am the music. I dont
need it to sound super hi-fi cause I have my home stereo for that
(sound like you've got one too), conversely I dont need my home stereo
to get super loud cause I got my PA system for that. I may get
another pair of SB180s but I honestly dont think I'll ever need that
much power.

I liked the Eliminators cause they were rather small. I couldnt see
myself lugging around anything with 2 15s on it so thats why I kept
with 1 15. However the stuff that we have now, even though its just
middle of the lower line, is much better then the stuff alot of "DJ"s
have. Every wedding I've been to the Dj has some cheap old peavey
speakers with no subs that sound like ass, and they take their home
stereo CD players with no pitch control.... When/if I get married I'm
going to use my own system.

Oh yeah i also tried to DJ mix with a "universal" style mixer. I have
a Spirit Folio F1. I think the biggest pain in the arse about doing
that was not having a cross fader. but otherwise the PFL/solo all
worked the same as a DJ mixer.

What about headphones? Any recommendations for headphones? I'm using
some cheapola sony portables. They sound like ass but they do the job
so far. but turn the system any louder and their open air design
overwhelms the 'hphones.

Ben

Eric wrote:

> Oh yeah i also tried to DJ mix with a "universal" style mixer. I have
> a Spirit Folio F1. I think the biggest pain in the arse about doing
> that was not having a cross fader. but otherwise the PFL/solo all
> worked the same as a DJ mixer.

I don't use the crossfader much anyway, I'm mostly mixing with the EQ's
and channel faders. So for me it was no problem. They don't have split
ear monitoriing, but I don't use that either, so no problem. The only
thing I like to have sometimes that a live sound board doesn't have is
headphone mixing.

> What about headphones? Any recommendations for headphones? I'm using
> some cheapola sony portables. They sound like ass but they do the job
> so far. but turn the system any louder and their open air design
> overwhelms the 'hphones.

I have Sony MDR-V700's, pretty standard. I don't totally love the way
they sound for just listening to music.. but they are excellent DJ
headphones. Some people have complained that they break easily but I
have treated mine well and so far so good, I am very happy with them.
But I got to try someone's Sennheiser HD-25's and I think the next time
I need to get headphones, those will be the ones. The Sennheisers are
pretty expensive. I know someone who has the Pioneer HD-1000's and
likes them, but I haven't tried them myself. I also know some people
using Sony MDR-7506's, but I listened to them in the store, and they
were good, but the 700's had more bass and I just liked them better.
But the one thing I don't like about the 700's is they are pretty heavy
and clunky. That's one reason I will go with the Sennheisers next time,
they are better for people like me with small heads

-Ben