Andrew Utting wrote:
> : Ok, I'm going to make a comment that might be slightly OT to some but
> : heck, you don't like me anyway.
>
> huh? i don't even know you...

May be the reason. ;)

> : So: I don't understand you, could you send me a sample of the music from
> : each of these (I already have enough standard-Tracker music, send me
> : something off of Buzz and something out of that 'proffesional' equipment
> : that some of you claim to be useless), that was actualy made whole in
> : that whatever tool (no out-of-someplace-else drumloops etc) and sounds
> : like music (I've tried some of the Buzz 'songs' out of TW2k and it
> : didn't sound like music at all). An abbility to compare will likely
> : clear my judgement.
>
> i'm not quite sure what exactly it is you want...you want tracks made in
> different programs right? made by the same person each time? or can they
> be different?

Well considering what I saw made in Buzz, I would say the music pieces
may be completely unrelated to eachother, just comparable.

> and what genre? not much point in providing links to music you won't like
> anyway...

Something like quality progressive or trance or as a matter of fact
Skaven-style metal will be awesome enough.

> : If anyone's actualy interested in my oppinion: The tracker is one of the
> : rare ways of making all kinds of music when it all really feels like You
> : are the one making the Music and your abbilities are not limited at all
> : if you know how to use it.
>
> thats the same with any software. if you know what you're doing anything
> is possible....

Yes, but it's a question of authorship. If you simply use a drumloop in
a trance song (where the drums are one of the 3 things you actualy need
to put in it) it just isn't (I would say) made in the program used for
it, but rather also made in the program used to make the drumloop.

In the end I could pretend to be one of the today's commercial DJ-s,
take some 20-years-old song (that just lost it's copyright effectivness)
as 1 sample and play it back in my song at a higher frequency and say
that: 1. I am the author of the song, 2. It is a remix, 3. It is made in
the program I used to render the WAV. I hope it is clear none of that is
actualy true and I hope I have pointed out the problems involved in
there as well.

Observer aka DustWolf aka CyberLegend aka Jure Sah

C'ya!

--
Cellphone: +38640809676 (SMS enabled)

Don't feel bad about asking/telling me anything, I will always gladly
reply.

Trst je na¹, Dunaja ne damo; Solmuna pa tud ne. Za vstop v EU. ;]

The future of AI is in technology integration,
we have prepared everything for you:
http://www.aimetasearch.com/ici/index.htm

MesonAI -- If nobody else wants to do it, why shouldn't we?(TM)

Interesting view - but to establish copyright it's MELODY that matters - but
it's a mine field.

Take Phats and Small 'Turn Around" that 'borrows' a bar from Changes 'Glow
of love' - it's not taken the melody in effect.

Ditto for Yomanda's "Synth and Strings" which borrows a late bar or two from
Liquid Golds "Dance yourself Dizzy".

Did either pay the dues???
"CyberLegend aka Jure Sah" <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si> wrote in message
news:3F114E6F.A0DF1B4@guest.arnes.si...
> Andrew Utting wrote:
> > : Ok, I'm going to make a comment that might be slightly OT to some but
> > : heck, you don't like me anyway.
> >
> > huh? i don't even know you...
>
> May be the reason. ;)
>
> > : So: I don't understand you, could you send me a sample of the music
from
> > : each of these (I already have enough standard-Tracker music, send me
> > : something off of Buzz and something out of that 'proffesional'
equipment
> > : that some of you claim to be useless), that was actualy made whole in
> > : that whatever tool (no out-of-someplace-else drumloops etc) and sounds
> > : like music (I've tried some of the Buzz 'songs' out of TW2k and it
> > : didn't sound like music at all). An abbility to compare will likely
> > : clear my judgement.
> >
> > i'm not quite sure what exactly it is you want...you want tracks made in
> > different programs right? made by the same person each time? or can they
> > be different?
>
> Well considering what I saw made in Buzz, I would say the music pieces
> may be completely unrelated to eachother, just comparable.
>
> > and what genre? not much point in providing links to music you won't
like
> > anyway...
>
> Something like quality progressive or trance or as a matter of fact
> Skaven-style metal will be awesome enough.
>
> > : If anyone's actualy interested in my oppinion: The tracker is one of
the
> > : rare ways of making all kinds of music when it all really feels like
You
> > : are the one making the Music and your abbilities are not limited at
all
> > : if you know how to use it.
> >
> > thats the same with any software. if you know what you're doing anything
> > is possible....
>
> Yes, but it's a question of authorship. If you simply use a drumloop in
> a trance song (where the drums are one of the 3 things you actualy need
> to put in it) it just isn't (I would say) made in the program used for
> it, but rather also made in the program used to make the drumloop.
>
> In the end I could pretend to be one of the today's commercial DJ-s,
> take some 20-years-old song (that just lost it's copyright effectivness)
> as 1 sample and play it back in my song at a higher frequency and say
> that: 1. I am the author of the song, 2. It is a remix, 3. It is made in
> the program I used to render the WAV. I hope it is clear none of that is
> actualy true and I hope I have pointed out the problems involved in
> there as well.
>
> Observer aka DustWolf aka CyberLegend aka Jure Sah
>
> C'ya!
>
> --
> Cellphone: +38640809676 (SMS enabled)
>
> Don't feel bad about asking/telling me anything, I will always gladly
> reply.
>
> Trst je na¹, Dunaja ne damo; Solmuna pa tud ne. Za vstop v EU. ;]
>
> The future of AI is in technology integration,
> we have prepared everything for you:
> http://www.aimetasearch.com/ici/index.htm
>
> MesonAI -- If nobody else wants to do it, why shouldn't we?(TM)
>
>

Interesting view - but to establish copyright it's MELODY that matters - but
it's a mine field.

Take Phats and Small 'Turn Around" that 'borrows' a bar from Changes 'Glow
of love' - it's not taken the melody in effect.

Ditto for Yomanda's "Synth and Strings" which borrows a late bar or two from
Liquid Golds "Dance yourself Dizzy".

Did either pay the dues???
"CyberLegend aka Jure Sah" <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si> wrote in message
news:3F114E6F.A0DF1B4@guest.arnes.si...
> Andrew Utting wrote:
> > : Ok, I'm going to make a comment that might be slightly OT to some but
> > : heck, you don't like me anyway.
> >
> > huh? i don't even know you...
>
> May be the reason. ;)
>
> > : So: I don't understand you, could you send me a sample of the music
from
> > : each of these (I already have enough standard-Tracker music, send me
> > : something off of Buzz and something out of that 'proffesional'
equipment
> > : that some of you claim to be useless), that was actualy made whole in
> > : that whatever tool (no out-of-someplace-else drumloops etc) and sounds
> > : like music (I've tried some of the Buzz 'songs' out of TW2k and it
> > : didn't sound like music at all). An abbility to compare will likely
> > : clear my judgement.
> >
> > i'm not quite sure what exactly it is you want...you want tracks made in
> > different programs right? made by the same person each time? or can they
> > be different?
>
> Well considering what I saw made in Buzz, I would say the music pieces
> may be completely unrelated to eachother, just comparable.
>
> > and what genre? not much point in providing links to music you won't
like
> > anyway...
>
> Something like quality progressive or trance or as a matter of fact
> Skaven-style metal will be awesome enough.
>
> > : If anyone's actualy interested in my oppinion: The tracker is one of
the
> > : rare ways of making all kinds of music when it all really feels like
You
> > : are the one making the Music and your abbilities are not limited at
all
> > : if you know how to use it.
> >
> > thats the same with any software. if you know what you're doing anything
> > is possible....
>
> Yes, but it's a question of authorship. If you simply use a drumloop in
> a trance song (where the drums are one of the 3 things you actualy need
> to put in it) it just isn't (I would say) made in the program used for
> it, but rather also made in the program used to make the drumloop.
>
> In the end I could pretend to be one of the today's commercial DJ-s,
> take some 20-years-old song (that just lost it's copyright effectivness)
> as 1 sample and play it back in my song at a higher frequency and say
> that: 1. I am the author of the song, 2. It is a remix, 3. It is made in
> the program I used to render the WAV. I hope it is clear none of that is
> actualy true and I hope I have pointed out the problems involved in
> there as well.
>
> Observer aka DustWolf aka CyberLegend aka Jure Sah
>
> C'ya!
>
> --
> Cellphone: +38640809676 (SMS enabled)
>
> Don't feel bad about asking/telling me anything, I will always gladly
> reply.
>
> Trst je na¹, Dunaja ne damo; Solmuna pa tud ne. Za vstop v EU. ;]
>
> The future of AI is in technology integration,
> we have prepared everything for you:
> http://www.aimetasearch.com/ici/index.htm
>
> MesonAI -- If nobody else wants to do it, why shouldn't we?(TM)
>
>

Have a chat with any copyright solicitor. All that is required to copyright
a piece is melody. You can go ahead and steal chord progressions, basslines
etc all you like.

Sampling is a different issue. Taking a chunk of somebody elses work
breaches several laws (from copyrights and patents to mechanical copyright).
Both examples I gave use 3 or 4 bars replayed in nearly exactly the same way
as the original - no credit given (or needed) and no dues paid but do not
steal the defined melody of the original track (and hence its actual
copyright). It's grey but I personally think the examples of given have made
excellent use of tired old tracks and breathed life onto many dancefloors as
a result. I don't see that as non-creative in any sense.


"CyberLegend aka Jure Sah" <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si> wrote in message
news:3F1282CC.93B94B06@guest.arnes.si...
> D Side wrote:
> > Interesting view - but to establish copyright it's MELODY that matters -
but
> > it's a mine field.
>
> Really? I mean... says who?
>
> For a start, commercial drumloops ARE copyrighted. Plus, if you're
> copyrighting any of my songs for the melody, you haven't copyrighted
> anything of value.
>
> Then one might start to think about DnB style music... are you saying it
> can't be copyrighted?
>
> > Take Phats and Small 'Turn Around" that 'borrows' a bar from Changes
'Glow
> > of love' - it's not taken the melody in effect.
> >
> > Ditto for Yomanda's "Synth and Strings" which borrows a late bar or two
from
> > Liquid Golds "Dance yourself Dizzy".
> >
> > Did either pay the dues???
>
> Well beats me I don't know them, but I stick with my oppinion that a lot
> of commercial music makers, especialy commercial DJs simply STEAL other
> people's music to make money for themselves when they run out of the
> deadly mix of money and immagination. I think they should at least learn
> how to NAME their songs correctly and not just say everything they ever
> laid their hands on is a Remix, when it's clearly not mixed any bit and
> is only an Edit...
>
> Observer aka DustWolf aka CyberLegend aka Jure Sah
>
> C'ya!
>
> --
> Cellphone: +38640809676 (SMS enabled)
>
> Don't feel bad about asking/telling me anything, I will always gladly
> reply.
>
> Trst je na¹, Dunaja ne damo; Solmuna pa tud ne. Za vstop v EU. ;]
>
> The future of AI is in technology integration,
> we have prepared everything for you:
> http://www.aimetasearch.com/ici/index.htm
>
> MesonAI -- If nobody else wants to do it, why shouldn't we?(TM)
>
>

Have a chat with any copyright solicitor. All that is required to copyright
a piece is melody. You can go ahead and steal chord progressions, basslines
etc all you like.

Sampling is a different issue. Taking a chunk of somebody elses work
breaches several laws (from copyrights and patents to mechanical copyright).
Both examples I gave use 3 or 4 bars replayed in nearly exactly the same way
as the original - no credit given (or needed) and no dues paid but do not
steal the defined melody of the original track (and hence its actual
copyright). It's grey but I personally think the examples of given have made
excellent use of tired old tracks and breathed life onto many dancefloors as
a result. I don't see that as non-creative in any sense.


"CyberLegend aka Jure Sah" <jure.sah@guest.arnes.si> wrote in message
news:3F1282CC.93B94B06@guest.arnes.si...
> D Side wrote:
> > Interesting view - but to establish copyright it's MELODY that matters -
but
> > it's a mine field.
>
> Really? I mean... says who?
>
> For a start, commercial drumloops ARE copyrighted. Plus, if you're
> copyrighting any of my songs for the melody, you haven't copyrighted
> anything of value.
>
> Then one might start to think about DnB style music... are you saying it
> can't be copyrighted?
>
> > Take Phats and Small 'Turn Around" that 'borrows' a bar from Changes
'Glow
> > of love' - it's not taken the melody in effect.
> >
> > Ditto for Yomanda's "Synth and Strings" which borrows a late bar or two
from
> > Liquid Golds "Dance yourself Dizzy".
> >
> > Did either pay the dues???
>
> Well beats me I don't know them, but I stick with my oppinion that a lot
> of commercial music makers, especialy commercial DJs simply STEAL other
> people's music to make money for themselves when they run out of the
> deadly mix of money and immagination. I think they should at least learn
> how to NAME their songs correctly and not just say everything they ever
> laid their hands on is a Remix, when it's clearly not mixed any bit and
> is only an Edit...
>
> Observer aka DustWolf aka CyberLegend aka Jure Sah
>
> C'ya!
>
> --
> Cellphone: +38640809676 (SMS enabled)
>
> Don't feel bad about asking/telling me anything, I will always gladly
> reply.
>
> Trst je na¹, Dunaja ne damo; Solmuna pa tud ne. Za vstop v EU. ;]
>
> The future of AI is in technology integration,
> we have prepared everything for you:
> http://www.aimetasearch.com/ici/index.htm
>
> MesonAI -- If nobody else wants to do it, why shouldn't we?(TM)
>
>